PLAYTECH: the nightmare list

admin · PLAYTECH: the nightmare list

Well, I am going to be brief:
There is a great thread in casinomeister called "PLAYTECH: the nightmare list".
(http://www.casinomeister.com/forums...tmare-list.html)
This thread is invaluable to new players as a guide and also to the rest of the players who play with this specific software for the specific updates of the negative cases.

Unfortunately its creator -Caruso- is not allowed to update it there.
After some time, no one else appeared who could possibly update the thread by evaluating the various situations, like Caruso did.
As a 'victim' myself of some playtech casinos in my early days of online gambling, I believe this thread may help especially the newcomers.
So I thought to publish it here and invite Caruso to this thread's natural continuation.

His last posted list is the following:

Giant Vegas
Royal Dice
Sierra Star

African Palace
Indio

Swiss Casino
Casino Las Vegas
50 Stars Casino
Casino King
Magic Box

Casino Tropez (???)
Europa Casino (???)
Casino Del Rio
Hammers
Vegas Red

Grand Banks
Sterling House
Black Widow

Joyland
Monaco Gold
Carnival
Club Dice
Prestige
Playgate
Diamond Club
USA New York
32 Vegas

Bet Royal

(Note: All casinos of the same group are listed together. Current serious problems are in bold)

Any comments, experiences, opinions and information from other players are mostly welcomed

admin · PLAYTECH: the nightmare list

Casinos I don't quite agree on:
Casino Tropez
Europa Casino
Casino Del Rio
Hammers
I got paid by these casinos numerous times all bonus related no documents requested.

Casinos I definitely not agree on:
Club Dice
USA
Crazy bonuses I take everytime after my previous withdrawal is processed. Simple amazing.

And of course people like Caruso and a few of those others who bad mouth casinos are banned. It is rather clear I guess what CM's here to do and his little 'casino pets' who'd die to protect any casino in which they just lost their lunch money to.
__________________
130+ Casinos - If bonus be the food of love, give me excess of it!

admin · PLAYTECH: the nightmare list

may add that list today's one of the most popular poker rooms: Titan.
This room is getting bigger and bigger every day, due to the most agressive bonus/affiliate program you may see around.

It's a poker room, a member of Ipoker network, but they do also offer some casino games integrated into the poker client. Playtech, RTG, etc.. They're rigged, so I never deposited to a Playtech room and never will but I joined a freeroll organized by one of the poker forums I'm a member of. I placed second there, and got something like $20 out of the prize pool and then after getting bored a bit with playing against super-loose guys (It's harder to play against this guys) I played some Blackjack. I knew about their dirty background but still tried to give a shot (I somehow did feel as if it were not my money at all). On my first games, I won consistenly (which was weird) Then decided to leave immediately. After few days I once again played and finally got chance to meet their famous RNG. After a loosing streak I wagered a rather hi amount. Had T while dealer had 6, doubled of course and boom. Just after that experienced twice the likes of this beat with T-5 or something like that, doubling again. Got broke there, now tring to get my balance up playing heads-up games : )

I don't play casino games, even it all seems silly to me, but when I want to play some roulette or Blackjack I only prefer MG sites like bet365, 32red etc. A playtech? No, thanks.

admin · PLAYTECH: the nightmare list

Casino Tropez used to be one of my favorites, I cashed out oft and without hassle. One day it all changed. Suddenly I must meet W/R for the bonus I never asked for, send documents and the usual. The same story was with Club Dice. I was wondering what the hell is going on? I didn't read any forums at that time... Later I found out that the casino management was changed.
As I signed at Casino Europe and Vegas Red, they persuaded me to take bonus, but he-he to their big dissapointment I won big playing Chinese Cook and Vacation Station My mailbox was flooded wth offers of huge bonuses if I cancel cash out. It was so annoing but after much hassle I finally got paid and immediately deinstalled Vegas Red.Played a little longer at Europe but only at multiplayer tables and without bonus.
Now I tried Bet365 (hear only good about them), had a nice cash out without hassle and very quick but page-design is a little bit confusing in terms of navigating.

admin · PLAYTECH: the nightmare list

I am the player from the casinoemister that was not paid winnings of more than 12,000 USD from casinotropez and europa casino Vegas red group of casinos

When I played there at the promotion terms and condition it said that Videopoker does not count towards the wagering. At the term of use which is the general term they added a sentence that they reserve the right not to pay if any Videopoker was played and they decided to enforce that rule on me .

There was another player AFTER me that had the same problem and they changed their promotion terms and put the sentence there and paid him but they never paid me although it was the same case.

If they were honest they would admit it was not right to put such an important fact at the term of use, the next casino will put a sentence at the privacy policy or other general terms pages to contradict what it says on the promotion page to void winnings.

Of course the casino will do it only on large cashouts that the bad publicity would worth it

admin · PLAYTECH: the nightmare list

Thank you hithere7 for your post and your successfully brief description.
This is a very strong example of a big problem from a group that may pay many players around (including Bonuslover and myself), but can do bad tricks when a large cashout occurs.
Most probably there are also smaller cashouts problems that are never reported in public or are resolved when the publicity is not worth it. Good point hithere7.
(I am very sorry for the result, I hope its not final)

admin · PLAYTECH: the nightmare list

Hithere7, do you have any copies of the promo T & C which contradict the "user end agreement" terms? If you do, I suggest you have a shot at posting your issue at the GPWA players' corner - there's many a helpful webmaster there. However, the sheer size of your cashout makes me pessimistic as to a successful outcome

admin · PLAYTECH: the nightmare list

> Bet 365 is a (magnificent to my opinion) Playtech casino
Well dunno about their stand alone casino client, I sometimes play BJ integrated into their MG poker client.

admin · PLAYTECH: the nightmare list

More than 12,000 USD IS BEING CONFISCATED!!!

In the attached screenshot you can see the old terms at Europa casino where it says that Videopoker does not count towards the wagering while in the new terms you can see they added the note that the excluded games may not be played at all

Here is the link for the new terms

http://www.europacasino.com/bonus.html#100free

Bets placed on all versions of Baccarat, all versions of Roulette, all versions of Sic Bo, all Video Poker games, all versions of Blackjack, Blackjack Switch, Blackjack Surrender, Pontoon and Craps will not be counted toward wagering requirements. We reserve the right to withhold any amount in excess of the player’s original deposit from a player's withdrawal if the play bonus is wagered on the above mentioned games.
Attached Images forcm.JPG

admin · PLAYTECH: the nightmare list

Here's an interesting point:

Quote:
Bets placed on all versions of Baccarat, all versions of Roulette, all versions of Sic Bo, all Video Poker games, all versions of Blackjack, Blackjack Switch, Blackjack Surrender, Pontoon and Craps will not be counted toward wagering requirements. We reserve the right to withhold any amount in excess of the player’s original deposit from a player's withdrawal if the play bonus is wagered on the above mentioned games.

Now read this:

Quote:
The first credits wagered will be deducted from your deposit(s) rather than from the PLAY BONUS).

It only states if the play bonus is wagered - it doesnt say anything about the deposit. So if your balance didnt drop below $22.50 at any point, then technically you weren't using the play bonus at all and therefor the terms they are referring to don't apply to you....you didnt use the play bonus at all!!!

Looks like they are digging their own hole on this one - obviously they dont have a lawyer look over their rules.

Depending on whether your balance ever dropped below $22.50, you may have a case.
__________________
Cheers

Nifty

admin

It seems our Dominique has issues with the "Casino Pays" group.

http://www.gamesandcasino.com/black...blacklisted.htm

Not a payment issue, and looks like a cousin of the Cassava blog-spamming business.

Most of these casinos are on this list for non-payment, anyway.

admin

) I strongly disagree with the inclusion of Vegas Red/Casinotropez/etc... group on this list. Their general terms and conditions clearly state that you will forfeit your winnings if you play excluded games. So what if it's on another page? Like I always tell my friends, read the terms and condtions (all of them) at least two times before you deposit.
2) While I agree that Joyland should be on the list due to many past "quirks" that they've had at the expense of the players, I STRONGLY disagree that all the OTHER Cpays affil. group casinos listed after it (Monaco Gold, etc...) should be in the list. You see, while they're running under the same affiliate program, the casinos in question are being owned and managed by different entities, so you can't blame all of them for a fault of one of the group affiliates. http://cpays.com/partners.php
3) And well, if the IOG group (Swiss Casino) is present in the list (which I could understand), why ISN'T the Golden Palace group? They still owe me $1,600 they took from me under same pretence, and I am just one of hundreds of players they owe money to.

Just my 2 cents.
__________________
Over $21,000 in free bonuses @ TopCasinoNews.com

admin

I'm very disappointed you didn't get any response at all from the GPWA, hithere7.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hithere7
They haven't pay me, they can't apply promotion rules that have been written at the provacy policy or tersm of use that contradict the terms at the promotion terms, for that you have the word discrepancy.

Actually, it's called "double standards", paying one player and robbing another in identical circumstances. I can't see much hope for progress on this matter, since no affiliates seem to support your legitimate complaint. The most that can be done is post reminders and hopefully deter others from playing.

BTW, when you contacted Bailey on this matter, he supported the casino, is that correct? What were his exact "findings"?

admin

often the "affiliate links" have different terms and conditions from ones posted on main site (including promotions page -- even the filenames are different). So if you first check an affiliate link for terms and conditions, and then later use the main site without any affiliate tracking cookies to download the software, you will sometimes have different wagering requirements, terms and conditions, and general promotions tersm (excluded games, etc...).

That's something that happened to a friend of mine a while ago with this same exact group... However in his case they simple returned his withdrawal back, and let him play the extra WR.

admin

This is not a surprise to me. The 'meister' has for a long time now had a short fuse with bonus players and has allowed the fraud cases he deals with jade his better judgement, one reason why I no longer will post there. He seems to pander to slot jockeys that are willing to lose it all and has no patience for bonus hunters even when NO rules are broken.

That statement in a nutshell exemplifies my point. The 'meister' and casino provide NO proof of wrong doing, the player broke NO rules and the 'meister seems content to side with the casino. All that is offered by the casino and the meister is some speculation that 2 players know eachother which in no way breaks any rules if they are playing from different computers.

What a joke this is and more proof that this industry needs to be government regulated. The only somewhat regulator of the industry has now officially turned to the darkside with that statement and can be bunched in with some of the other pseudo regulators that pop up.

Bonus hunting or not, no rules were broken and the player still has money stolen and the figurehead of the industry turns his back. This is a dark day for online gaming

admin

So now: someone explain why online gambling should NOT be outlawed by the US?

Up until now, we've had a quasi-truce with casinos, playing in the knowledge that in the event of problems we have recourse to message boards and affiliates with advantageous contacts. Not ideal, but pretty good.

Now, the affiliate with the MOST advantageous contacts of them all has said that casinos may legitimately "reserve the right" (the "f**k you clause", to quote him exactly - how professional) and not pay at their discretion. Notwithstanding absolute rule adherence, casinos may deny winnings if they so choose, and said actions will be SUPPORTED by the affiliate community. And incidentally, we have already seen as much from eCOGRA, disallowing winnings on the basis of bogus claims of "bonus abuse". So while today's matter has come from the top, it's already clearly supported from lower down the "regulatory" tree.

Therefore, since we have now apparently lost what little regulation there was, should the US government not now be encouraged to step in to protect all gamblers from depositig into no-pay casinos? Maybe not before, while we had fair-minded middlemen to turn to, but the situation seems much changed now. I know this isn't exactly the party line, but you have to at least appreciate the weight of the argument: there is no more regulation, and if you have a legitimate complaint you are SOL.

And let's be absolutely clear what is happening here: a player has played and infringed no rules. Not one rule has been broken. In response to this, the industry's number one "player advocate" has sided with the casino. Yet the casino is plainly in the wrong - we have all the written evidence in support of this - and the player plainly in the right.

admin

The united states government dont care if a person is treated right , when it comes to online gambling. They have Vegas and the Indian reseverstions on there back, to make sure they want lose there money.

he has been leaning to the casino side for a long time.
__________________
Onlineplayersunion.com (We protect the players)

admin

Well, this is one good reason I tell my friends to *ALWAYS* follow affiliate links to sign up at a casino, and make sure the "affiliate" is running a good referal website, and will stand up for your rights if you complain on boards.

admin

There are some important misunderstandings circulating. I'm not sure that people are being deliberately dim, but they need clarifying:

1) The player deposited under a set of conditions that stated that certain games were NON-COUNTING towards the wagering terms. This is backed up by the player's screenshots.

2) The casino sent an email to the player directly contradicting this. The email stated that those NON-COUNTING games were in fact EXCLUDED.

In the first place, an email sent contradicting a web site promo is not relevant. The binding terms are those on the site, this being a web site promo, not email invite. The site made no mention of the relevant games being excluded, only non counting for the bonus wagering. NOW it does. THEN it didn't.

In the second place, what this email DOES tell us is that the casino can distinguish very well between these two terms, otherwise why send it? The only reason can be to highlight differences.

Look at the terms as they NOW stand:

Quote:
Please note that Video Poker, Blackjack (all variations) Sic Bo, Craps, Roulette, Baccarat, and all Fixed Odds games are excluded games and may not be played until such time as the wagering requirements for this particular bonus have been met. The Casino reserves the right to withhold any amount in excess of the player's original deposit from a player's withdrawal if the bonus is wagered on the above games, before the wagering on allowed games is fully completed.

Now look at the PREVIOUS terms:

Quote:
Bets placed on roulette, blackjack, baccarat, craps, jacks or better, blackjack video poker and sic bo do not count towards the wagering requirements.

This player, the same as the other player from Giant Vegas, has not broken any rules. His clear bonus hunting tendencies are not relevant to the issue. The only relevance is his adherance to the rules, and on this issue he is one hundred percent clean.

admin

Well, I am going to be brief:
There is a great thread in casinomeister called "PLAYTECH: the nightmare list".
(http://www.casinomeister.com/forums...tmare-list.html)
This thread is invaluable to new players as a guide and also to the rest of the players who play with this specific software for the specific updates of the negative cases.

Unfortunately its creator -Caruso- is not allowed to update it there.
After some time, no one else appeared who could possibly update the thread by evaluating the various situations, like Caruso did.
As a 'victim' myself of some playtech casinos in my early days of online gambling, I believe this thread may help especially the newcomers.
So I thought to publish it here and invite Caruso to this thread's natural continuation.

His last posted list is the following:

Giant Vegas
Royal Dice
Sierra Star

African Palace
Indio

Swiss Casino
Casino Las Vegas
50 Stars Casino
Casino King
Magic Box

Casino Tropez (???)
Europa Casino (???)
Casino Del Rio
Hammers
Vegas Red

Grand Banks
Sterling House
Black Widow

Joyland
Monaco Gold
Carnival
Club Dice
Prestige
Playgate
Diamond Club
USA New York
32 Vegas

Bet Royal

(Note: All casinos of the same group are listed together. Current serious problems are in bold)

Any comments, experiences, opinions and information from other players are mostly welcomed

well i dont agree with u list there either hun i have cash out in some of this casino with out any prob what so ever
casinos i have cash out from is
joyland
vegas red was the last one (500d)
50 star among some
it may be higher amount that are the prob since u have thy on u list
but i cash out from 300 to 600 almost everytime i go playtech
heidi